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User blog:DeathBattleDude/My thoughts on Ryu VS Jin
Alright, been 5 months since the fight but it don’t really matter to me whether or not people would care but I’m just posting this to get these thoughts out of my head because I’m too obsessed with this battle. So, let’s get right into business. Ryu VS Jin. One of the best Death Battles ever animated by ScrewAttack and one of the most requested. Let me tell you my verdict: I agree with the results, but the reasoning and analysis they gave has many flaws to them. I plain didn’t like all of the mistakes and misuse of canon materials they made because giving at least one mistake or one non canon feat would spoil the debating for me. What I really disagreed with The overall usage of non-canon materials It’s easy to find out that i don’t like using non-canon materials in debating. Let me tell you the reason why: Non-canon materials are pretty much cheap tools to use in debating. Many debaters like to use non-canon strengths for the character but not their non-canon weaknesses. It’s also pretty difficult to composite characters completely and properly. It’s like combining Super Goku with GT Goku and then using all other versions of Goku from the movies like Bio-Broly and other games like Xenoverse. Overall, I hated that they cherry-picked tons of shit. The non-canon feats they’ve shown and why I disagreed 1. Flight into orbit. https://youtu.be/tvpUQGiFYo4 This is why I disagreed with the usage of the feat. It has Unknown in the ending, and Unknown is supposed to be non canon. Also, there are heavy implications that the whole event was just a nightmare, as Jin was wearing his suit when he was found unconscious on the beach and before that he was wearing his traditional costume after defeating Unknown and still when in Devil Form. Nobody in canon even knows who Unknown is as she’s basically nonexistent in Tekken canon. 2. Jack's Meteor Feat. https://youtu.be/v-aP0UOKzz8 Yeah, unsupportive of canon, but even if it is it still does not scale. This isn’t your average Jack-6 model. It has a jetpack on it and he needed to use it to get enough force to destroy the meteor. Despite gaining the force to wreck the meteor, he still got destroyed and it took him three attempts. The first was when he pushed it with enough force gathered from flying upwards (and it only made it crack a bit), the second was when he tried to punch it many times to make some of the cracks fall off (and it did, yet it still couldn’t stop the meteor), and lastly, he flew a bit back down to gather enough force to actually wreck the meteor (and he did, yet he still died as a result of the explosion caused by the meteor). Yeah, Heihachi did destroy many Jack-6 robots, but they didn’t have the power of the Jack-6 robot in Tag 2. The robot in Tag 2 simply had some form of hax because of the jetpack, which gave him a boost in speed and strength. 3. The Shin Akuma feat. https://youtu.be/2irlJxcDwtI Here’s me proving that I’m no wanker or downplayer, as I actually love both series equally (As I think that the gameplay and cinematic fight scenes are much cooler in Tekken and the characters, story, and designs are much cooler in Street Fighter). Okay, so the Shin Akuma feat was impressive, to the point where it’s actually more impressive than Jack's feat because it took him one punch to destroy it and he didn’t die when it happened, and it doesn’t contradict canon, and even if I wanted to use the feat, it’s not scaleable for so two reasons. 1: Shin Akuma is the final form of Akuma, by far the strongest canon character in Street Fighter. It’s left ambiguous on who could truly rival him, and while it’s possible that Evil Ryu can, they never really fought for real to prove this. 2: Much like Jack, he needed hax for this as he had to gather up force from the massive leap he made. It’s unscalable to anyone in Street Fighter, and those who could possibly scale to it aren’t canon (I’m talking about Ingrid, Evil Ryu, and Oni). 4. Ryu Final. I heard this story contradicts canon and therefore it shouldn’t have been used the same reason why they didn’t use Blood Vengeance. That’s pretty myopic and hypocritical to me. 5. UDON Comics. https://m.imgur.com/a/WciAC This is where they took the feat where it was stated that he beat Oni (obviously non-canon) and (along with Ryu Final) Akuma. This is obviously contradicting of canon if you’ve read the comics, and obviously wanking Ryu. 6. Street Fighter Alpha: The Animation. The skyscraper feat and bullet-timing doesn’t really upgrade or downgrade, but where it came from clearly isn’t canon as the events never occurred in he actual Alpha storyline. 7. Evil Ryu. While Evil Ryu is a hypothetical character and can still be scaled due to him not being completely non-canon, he still shouldn’t be used. It’s Ryu fully succumbing to the Satsui no Hado, in contrast to Ryu only partially succumbing to it before going back to base. Shutting up both wankers and downplayers from both fanbases 1. The power of Devil is limitless as stated by Wang in Tekken 6! There are so many things wrong with this statement. After a Tekken 2, Half of the Devil went on to Jin Kazama, which makes Devil Kazuya much weaker than he was before. What’s half of infinity again? Still infinity! So, if Devil was truly limitless, then Devil Jin would be as powerful as Tekken 2 Kazuya and Kazuya won’t even try to absorb Jin's half. And no, this isn’t that Superman-type limitless (which is false btw as some comics show that he has some limits and that some of his so-called limitless feats are debunked and taken out of context) as Kazuya doesn’t have a power source to keep the Devil running. Wang's statement about it being limitless is a mere statement. It could be symbolic, or hyperbole. By the way, that final form he had to fight Heihachi isn’t as strong as he was in Tekken 2 as Jin still has his other half. 2. Azazel's feat. https://youtu.be/SKxDEN-sKrM (23:04) So, geologically impossible feat is a country feat eh? Wrong. Lars said that it’s geologically impossible because magma started to erupt through the vicinity. Not the whole country, the vicinity. That’s around Small Town or Small City, although I’m certain it’s the latter. It would’ve been a country feat if Lars said that magma erupted throughout every temple in Egypt as there are tons of temples there. 3. Evil Ryu killed Shin Akuma! Evil Ryu defeating Shin Akuma didn’t happen because, obviously, Akuma appeared in other games. So, essentially, it’s a What-If? inside another What-If? 4. Azazel is planet level. No, he’s not. Yes, it was prophesied but he never really showed this capability in the story. Also, destroy the world has many interpretations in mind. 5. Jin and Kazuya can destroy the world as prophesied. While Tekken 8 could prove this right, I’m not going to take this too seriously or out of context as of now as it’s not proven yet. Many prophesies can be disproven or defied like Azazel's. 6. Jin's laser is Sub-Relativistic when scaling to Kazuya. Well, in terms of attack speed yes, but actual speed? No. In Tekken 2, Heihachi did show a Sub-Relativistic feat but it wasn’t canon at all. As for Akuma's feat, it wasn’t a straightforward blast, Kazuya rose his head up while shooting the beam from the ground, which gave him enough time to dodge it. And as one of the pop-ups said, it’s not enough to kill Ryu. 7. Jin can finally control the Devil Gene. While the last few seconds of the story has Devil Jin's tattoos manifesting, it doesn’t really translate full control, and there’s nothing to support that he did do so. We’ll have to wait till the next Tekken game to see what actually happened. 8. Mu No Ken is limitless. No, it’s not. The zeros in Seth's machine doesn’t automatically mean limitless, it may mean that it’s immeasurable. 9. Devil Jin can just fly up and torture Ryu with Devil Beams and Telekinesis. No, Devil Jin isn’t that cheap of a fighter. He’s haughty enough to not do that and even then, it’s not enough to put down Ryu. If we’re going to pit two combatants against each other, especially if its a martial artist, we must know what codes and rules they’d have in combat and what they would do and not do. 10. Ryu cannot scale to Akuma. Yes, he can. https://youtu.be/YXDZHyGa2cQ As you can see here, he puts up a battle against Akuma and it would be absurd if Akuma held back as he wants Ryu to give in to the Satsui no Hado. His intention during the fight is to overpower Ryu and have him give in to become Evil Ryu. Also, Evil Ryu is scaleable to base Akuma and Mu no Ken Ryu is comparable to Evil Ryu. Also, Akuma does have joy in fighting him as stated in his Alpha 2 ending and his bio in the 30th anniversary. Also, there’s nothing that implies that their fight in SFV was a one-sided stomp and they clash for one last time in Akuma's Arcade ending that takes place after III. If it was a stomp, Ryu would be injured, bloodied, and near-dead. Even if Ryu can’t scale to current Akuma, he should be at least stronger than Alpha Akuma. 11. Akuma's feat is not Island! The calcs that say it was Mountain is either outdated or disproven. Scroll through the comments of one of the calcs that say it was Mountain and it was disproven. Here are the calcs: https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-blog-entry/akumas-satsui-no-hado-chop-streetfighter.15570/ (outdated) https://www.narutoforums.org/xfa-blog-entry/akumas-chop-energy-streetfighter.18008/ (disproven) As you can see, the comments had a calculation that disproves the feat, outright stating that fragmentation cannot be used like this. 12. Jinpachi's storms are island level!!! No. No calc has supported this and it’s not even close to 1 megaton of tnt by comparing it to similar feats. In fact, it’s actual potency is likely lesser. Why I think Ryu prevails Street Fighter and Tekken are both equally my favorite fighting games, so this was a difficult one for me but Ryu wins this one through superior stats. Devil Jin has many powers but none of them were enough to finish off Ryu. Devil Jin's massive array of powers offer a challenge, but ultimately not enough for him to win, considering how arrogantly he uses these powers and how Ryu's fought people with the same or similar capabilities like M. Bison and C. Viper. Also, Jin does have feats that can let him win, but unfortunately, they’re not canon. The speed advantage ScrewAttack presented is pretty wrong due to it being non-canon, and they’re actually close in speed. But what really won Ryu over for me was the gap in durability and destructive capacity. Speed and strength were comparable for the most part though, but that wasn’t enough to save Jin from Ryu's other advantages. Between the two, Ryu wins fighting ability, range, durability, destructive capabilities, and control of power. Also, Jin's pain in transforming into Devil Jin gives Ryu a massive opening to beat Jin up, considering how quick and easy it is for him to tap into the Mu No Ken. Category:Blog posts